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IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE TWELFTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA, IN AND FOR MANATEE COUNTY CIVIL DIVISION CASE NO. 2000-CC-004009
CAROL STRONSTORFF, Petitioner, 2 Hearings V. BLAKE MEDICAL CENTER,
Respondent. ________________________________________/
TAKEN BY: THE HONORABLE STEVE RUSHING SENIOR JUDGE BY: DICTATION RECORDER of Carol Stronstorff with leave of the Court For total accuracy, one must listen to the recording. Items in italicized brackets are unclear at this transcription attempt. Emphasized brackets indicate clarification - was not in the original case hearing.
DATE: October 17, 2001 SCHEDULED TIME 3:15 AND 3:20 PLACE: MANATEE COUNTY COURTHOUSE Bradenton, Florida
APPEARANCES: CAROL STRONSTORFF, Pro se 1840 Restful Dr. Bradenton, Florida 34207 Appearing on Behalf of the Petitioner/ Complainant JAMES A. EVANGELISTA, Esquire Fowler, White, Boggs & Parker, P.A. Post Office Box 1438 Tampa, Florida 33601 Appearing on Behalf of the Respondent/ Appellee via telephone
THE COURT: Hello this is Judge Rushing. MR. EVANGELISTA: Hello, Judge Rushing, this is Jim Evangelista, counsel for Blake Medical Center. THE COURT: OK , Mr. Evangelista. Ahh, this is Judge Rushing. I'm sitting in for Judge DeFuria today on the case of ah Stronstorff vs. Blake Medical Center. Ms. Stronstorff is here pro se. MR. EVANGELISTA: Yes, sir. THE COURT: She has requested permission to tape-record the proceedings. And Ummm, I've told her she might turn it on unless you have an objection. MR. EVANGELISTA: No, Sir. THE COURT: We don't have a court reporter here, so . OK. Umm. This is plaintiffs' motion for contempt, I believe. MS. STRONSTORFF: Um. The First is the motion, excuse me, your Honor, the motion to compel the delivery of an itemized bill. THE COURT: OK. Can you speak up just a little bit? MS. STRONSTORFF: Yes. THE COURT: Counsel, can you hear her? MR. EVANGELISTA: Yes, sir. THE COURT: OK. So you're wanting to have an itemized bill? Umm. I I have a rather lengthy motion of Miss Stronstorff of the {fifth} of October? MS. STRONSTORFF: No, this is of August 23rd. THE COURT: I apologize. I'm obviously not that familiar with this file. It's getting to be pretty thick. Umm. It's August 23rd? MS. STRONSTORFF: Yes, Your honor. THE COURT: And you're wanting to have an itemized billing ? MS. STRONSTORFF: Yes your Honor. According to its 395.301 Florida Statutes, I'm entitled to an itemized bill. I have.. This was my initial request. Uhhh. I have not received an itemized bill from them. An itemized bill should look like the last page of this and it should also be in the name of the facility, which gave provided the services to my mother and to my knowledge the only facility, which was supposed to provide services to my mother was Blake Medical Center. There have been different bills - uhh- to Medicare. The Medicare carrier has reported that ahh Blake Medical Center has billed under the name of HCA L W Blake Memorial Hospital and also another bill was made under HCA L W Blake ahh Hospital. And these are to my knowledge and ah inquiring ahh into the fictitious name registry, in the Division of Corporations, these are not valid names. The only name, the only registered hospital in Bradenton is Blake Medical Center and I have not received a itemized bill from Blake Medical Center. As I said in this order of 13th I'd like to know how Blake Medical Center billed Medicare under a facility name which does not exist and is not a licensed hospital in Florida at the time of my mother's hospitalization. THE COURT: Are you alleging that they might have double payment from them. MS. STRONSTORFF: I have no idea. They, they apparently Medicare has any case received a bill by a facility name that does not exist. There may be some explanation. Blake Medical Center has not provided me with an explanation. THE COURT: What I'm just saying is What is the question you have? Is it that.. in other words did they send out from Blake Memorial or Blake Medical as long as the bill was paid ? back ahead is OK. MS. STRONSTORFF: I suspect up coding and Medicare fraud. THE COURT: Uhh MS. STRONSTORFF: And what's more, the billing.. the bill ..the ahh the detailed bill, which is actually an audit sheet, which I received from them, does not have the things that happened to my mother and I also have reason to believe that malpractice has occurred and that I have not been informed about it at the time. And this is my report. THE COURT: Mr. Evangelista , there's a motion to compel delivery of an itemized hospital bill by Blake Medical Center for patient Mrs. Stronstorff for treatment in January through February of 1999. Do you have a copy of that ord.. motion? MR. EVANGELISTA: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: What is you all position on that? MR. EVANGELISTA: Your Honor , our position is the same as it has been throughout these proceedings, which were commenced by Ms. Stronstorff in the early part of this year [sic] involving an order denying her motion for a temporary injunction, which is the way in which, she invoked the jurisdiction of this court. MS. STRONSTORFF: not true.. MR. EVANGELISTA: We have, your honor, and I know you have not had the benefit of participating in the proceedings for the past 6 or 7 months given 8 months --ahh THE COURT: Well, the file is growing fast and rather thick rather quickly. MR. EVANGELISTA: But, what has occurred, your Honor, is that by way of the petition for a temporary injunction, which the Court ultimately considered her petition, which is called a petition to complete medical records, bills as well as relief from harassment. The Court ultimately denied the temporary injunction. On behalf of Blake Medical Center, I volunteered to have Blake Medical Center produce to Ms. Stronstorff each and every document, everything that she wanted from Blake Medical Center, which she thought, she had not received. Ah, consequently we have now been involved in producing these records and making these records available for her, filing with the Court proof that we have complied with the court orders now only to be brought back into court repeatedly ....with {deception ...that }, what we've provided her with is insufficient. Umm, All I can say to the court is that we have filed in response to this court order dated March {April 6th} .....that we have filed compliance with the court as of May 4th, 2001 and we have filed with the court a verification of completeness of records signed by a representative of Blake Medical Center on May 18th, uhh 2001. We have also... I think that's actually all we've filed at Court. THE COURT: Well, Ma'am, let me just interrupt for a second. Ma'am? What?, I'm . I'm looking here. It does appear that the Exhibit A, that you have attached to your motion that does show quite a bit of ahh detailed stuff. MS. STRONSTORFF: This is not.. THE COURT: This is from 9/28 of through.. MS. STRONSTORFF: This is not a bill from Blake Medical Center, your Honor. MR. EVANGELISTA: It's a different bill. MS. STRONSTORFF: This is the way Sarasota Memorial made an itemized bill. This is the itemized bill, which I received from This is not. It's an audit sheet at the end. When they did the audit, they lumped together everything under 2 ..under the date 2/2 so that I can not identify what they are taking off and the fact that the bill is not itemized does not allow me to control what they have done. It appears, that they have just dropped the record from the initial - uhh- arrival of my mother at the hospital in the emergency room on the 12th. [sic] She was arrived at noon and it seems like the bill seems to start maybe at midnight, which appears to have been an adverse incident about which I was never informed and there are only indications in the records. Ahh.. The records are extremely faulty. They do not even identify the physician, who ordered heparin - ahh- anticoagulant, which requires normally that a physician be identi -all records require that the physician be identified. This is not identifiable in these records, which they have presented. And they have refused to inform me, who that physician is - to date! And consequently... THE COURT: Let me. Just let me just let me verify. Mr. Evangelista, and I apologize , I'm kinda come in the middle of this but you're saying basically that her... her injunction was denied and kind of like as a act of good faith on your own, you all agreed to get her some records and now the court is ordering you to get certain records. MR. EVANGELISTA: In essence, Judge, that's correct. What, what has happened is that back in March of this year, uhh, we advised the court that we would do everything that we could to appease Ms. Stor.. Stronstorff. THE COURT: OK. Now is there actually anything pending before the court now then? MR. EVANGELISTA: No sir. THE COURT: Just her Motions to ahh? MR. EVANGELISTA: Her motions for contempt and her motions to.. ahh.. for to compel and and as I pointed out to the Judge DeFuria back again, when we had the other hearing ahhh, I don't remember when it was but April, I guess, uhh I did not know under what jurisdiction we were continuing to proceed. THE COURT: Yeah. MR. EVANGELISTA: I also did point out to Judge DeFuria that Ms. Stronstorff does have the right to pursue any type of legal action in Circuit Court - malpractice or otherwise and there are administrative proceedings that have been initiated by her in regard to compliance with Chapter 395 concerning hospital records. Judge DeFuria advised Ms. Stronstorff that she needed to consult Counsel and pursue those remedies. Ms. Stronstorff astutely pointed out to Judge DeFuria that she felt those remedies were inadequate as her mother is survived by only an adult child [sic], Ms. Stronstorff, and there are therefore no actions of financial compensation by way of Florida's Wrongful Death Statute combined with the medical malpractice statute. Consequently, we are before this court, frankly voluntarily attempting to ah a comport with or assist Ms. Stronstorff. Judge DeFuria has done the same and has provide detailed detailed order, ah which we have... MS. STRONSTORFF: not fulfilled- MR. EVANGELISTA: .. have complied with with to the best of our ability and that's all the records and I, I don't know how the court has taken jurisdiction over this, but it has been going on close to 8-9 months now. OK. THE COURT: OK, well..... Tschuu.. MS. STRONSTORFF: Your, honor THE COURT: Yes. MS. STRONSTORFF: May I please interrupt. THE COURT: Yes. MS. STRONSTORFF: Ahh. Ahh. The Counsel, Blake's Counsel says that this Court started with this motion for temporary injunction. THE COURT: Right. MS. STRONSTORFF: And this is not the case at all. I , I was pro se and I didn't know the system. I started with my very first petition was Stronstorff vs. Blake Medical Center and it was Petition for the complete medical records and accurate bill for Zoe Stronstorff as well as relief from continued harassment by the Blake Medical Records staff and I based it all on Florida Statutes 395.3025(1) and there is another one for the bill. These are Florida statutes that entitle me to these items. Ahh. Blake Medical Center and their Counsel never answered this. Actually, I should have made a motion for default. They came and they said that noted a filing the bill. The bill was ..Did I show it to you ? I guess it is this edit This umm ahhhh audit sheet. It is not a bill. it does not show the name of the hospital on it. It does say Zoe Stronstorff on it. It has an audit sheet date. It doesn't have the itemized bill. It doesn't have the hospital name. It doesn't match up with what they billed Medicare. Now I have a right as a citizen and a taxpayer to control the records. I have actually a duty to do that. If this hospital is committing fraud, I should be able to know it. And it is the only way, I can control it, is through an itemized bill. Now the way this bill was done, I have had, I got one not in their name before and ahh it was more detailed like a bill except it had a fraudulent name or rather the not valid name and like I said it had these records missing. There were questions to it. According to the law, it also says if there are questions on the bill, they should be answered. Now Blake Medical Center doesn't answer them. I had detailed questions on this. This was part of the Petition - here, I have it - all these questions - They were given to 'em, I think, in July, 1999. Not one question was answered! There are, there are, ahh, like let's say heparin, for a next example, they have it in the bill and we know bills are made electronically, which means if you have an item with the same code number, the same name, the same procedure number, it will always have the same price unless there's a price change. THE COURT: True. MS. STRONSTORFF: So one day it has 200 dollars for the value and the next day it has four hundred and thirteen dollars value - as an example. THE COURT: Was it maybe different amounts? MS. STRONSTORFF: NO, no, no, no. It's the itemized ..It is the procedure. It's identified exactly what it is. If You.. You have a unit of it. You don't have it. If they would explain it to me, it would be fine, but this is not the case. They try to get the bill to match up with the Medicare bill. And they have not given me an itemized bill. You should see there in the example. That's how an itemized bill looks and they refuse to give it to me. And the reason, they probably don't give it to me is because then I would have proof of their fraud and they are not making it easy for me. THE COURT: Well, OK. I'm, I'm no I'm not really sure what to do here. Ummm. Mr. Evangelista, if you could maybe help me a little bit. Umm. It would appear to me ahh just, I guess just as a friend of the court here or for her, cause I can't give you legal advice, Ma'am, but. Ummm it seems like to me that this motion should be denied on the basis that umm basically, I, I don't, unless I ..I.. that it would seem like that you all have complied with this ahh dates of service ahh access. If that's all you got then it seems like ya can't get blood from a turnip. Umm. That, you know, this seems like it's all kind of like a gratuitous situation on your part that now the court system is ordering you to do, which I have {___} thoughts that jurisdiction of the court should to do that. But on the other hand, I do, I understand, I think, where the judge may be coming from that Ms. Stronstorff wants to be able to I guess get these records and compare them to the Medicare uhh filings and ensure that everything is on the up and up. Which, you know, I think, if it would be my mother, I'd probably maybe do the same thing but umm I just don't know if this is the right way to get from here to there. Is there uhh? You know, it seems like can you go to Medicare and get their records and then... ? MS. STRONSTORFF: They told me to go to the hospital and get their records. And the hospital is not giving them. THE COURT: They tell you to go to the hospital. The hospital says go to Medicare. MS. STRONSTORFF: Right. But in any case the judge has ordered. Judge DeFuria ordered them. The last order was for that I was to see the original records. What happens, I had it in writing. This is the motion from the 10th. They did not give me the original records. THE COURT: Well I reckon, they have to make a copy of them. Are these something that she can kind of like what we do with attorneys in going out at her time and expense and go down and take a look at these records if there is like - I would imagine, that there is some kind of a a folder for her mother? MS. STRONSTORFF: they..they.. MR. EVANGELISTA: Your Honor, there is an order dated July 18th from Judge DeFuria THE COURT: Right. MR. EVANGELISTA: And your Honor, we ..Ms. Stronstorff has been to Blake Medical Center umm about, I don't know the exact number, but at least more than 5 times. MS. STRONSTORFF: Ten times, I believe, Your Honor. THE COURT: ten times? MR. EVANGELISTA: ten times. MS. STRONSTORFF: And I have not gotten the records yet. MR. EVANGELISTA: And that's exactly the response. Regardless of what records, we've produced for review each and every time, we're told that we haven't produced the all of the records for the complete She and everything she wants to see. So, I have representatives at court and the information provides me by my client. THE COURT: You have an affidavit here from Gary Biedler. MR. EVANGELISTA: Yes, Sir. THE COURT: He basically says that they've given -they gave her everything that they can give her. MS. STRONSTORFF: Uhh. Your Honor, he has not given me the requisitions. He says that they are available. He's just said that they're summaries and I have taken great detail to point out- I've taken a position to the that. I , I thought, Judge DeFuria would have read it. I mean, you're new to that. It's quite long, but I have written a position to Mr. Biedler's and I accused him of not answering properly and not explaining certain records in there that there is a law also - rather a compliance order - that every laboratory test must be ordered by a physician and the records - the medical records that are all in court now show that not all those those uhh uhh summaries.. THE COURT: But, but. MS. STRONSTORFF: labs. THE COURT: But this, let's say that if you get all those records here and you find that there's a discrepancy there where a lab have was a - a test was ordered by a a nurse rather than a physician. You're still going to have to file some sort of law suit or something or somewhere. I presume. This this this uhh appears . This uhh file is basically dead. MR. EVANGELISTA: Yes..{ } MS. STRONSTORFF: Why is it dead ? Because they have not fulfilled the state law. Is the state law dead? Is this law , the state law that says that.. THE COURT: No, I'm just saying that this vehicle, where basically, your motion for injunction was denied. MS. STRONSTORFF: That was an injunction was for the destruction of certain records from Symphony Mobilex and it was not even from Blake Medical Center. It was laboratory tests of a mobile laboratory. It was not to do with these records. It had nothing ..This was a temporary injunction with Symphony Mobilex because they had records and I could not get them. This is another part. THE COURT: But that was denied. MS. STRONSTORFF: It was denied. Yes. THE COURT: OK ,So but you are now doing discovery based upon that denial? MR. EVANGELISTA: That's true. MS. STRONSTORFF: No, I'm not. The discovery goes back to the to the initial petition, which has not been addressed. THE COURT: That's what I'm saying that it does not appear, I mean. I mean, my heart my heart goes out to you but I understand what you are trying to do. I think that you certainly have a right to get these records but I don't know that this is the case, the right way to do it. Umm, it seems like you should file ahh you know a based on what you have file a lawsuit against the the , you know, if you feel there's been . I know what you are saying that you need to get a certain amount of evidence, but It seems like maybe you have enough already to to file a lawsuit and then as a result of that you can get discovery and depositions and things like that. MS. STRONSTORFF: Your Honor? Does this law..?I mean it is a law that says they are entitled to I can not under this law ask that they give this to me? Is? Is? Is this law not effective in Manatee County or not in the state of Florida? Is it only to be exercised through a malpractice case? I mean, this is a law that says I am entitled to an itemized bill and THE COURT: I, Well, you know, I don't think that is what it says, Ma'am, but the problem I have is that you have, that you seems to me, as though It's like you're trying to use , you now, a car to get to an island. You need to get on a boat to get to the island. In other words, you have a right to get to where you want to go, I would think.. MS. STRONSTORFF: But.. THE COURT: But it doesn't appear that this is .. . [Carol and the judge spoke at the same time] MS. STRONSTORFF: Blake Medical Center is not following the |